Have two in the house now. Nosler offers a box of 20 cartridges for $93. Basically, he necked down the 7x57mm Mauser case to take .257 inch diameter (standard .25 caliber) bullets. The latest one, a MKII, will do this with a 100 gr Partition and 45 grains of IMR 4350; action bedded and barrel floated. Its perfect.. In addition to a smaller neck, the wildcat had a shallower 15-degree shoulder angle and a slightly shorter case. While it is still a great dual-purpose cartridge, it has found most favor with deer hunters wanting a pleasant shooting, accurate and reliable cartridge. The .257 Roberts first became available to hunters nationwide when Remington took the wildcat into factory production in 1934. It remains a popular choice among hunters and shooters alike. Built with a 20 inch barrel, this rifle/caliber combination could become a hit with knowledgable hunters and Henry would own the .257 Roberts rifle market. All Shooting Times subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. JSP, MV 2920 f.p.s. Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a Mbius strip. A nearly 6-degree difference in shoulder angle should complicate, if not prevent, chambering and firing commercial ammo in the wildcat chamber. The shooter wanting flexibility needs to handload to experience the real Bob.. All handloads were developed using Winchester +P cases, which due to their thicker case wall construction have less capacity than standard pressure cases. Ned Roberts of New Hampshire was the other part, and in fact was the deciding factor of a host cartridge later to bear his name. Today, few All of the .257 Roberts loads listed above blow this .243 load away. In deference to the older rifles of questionable metallurgy, some loads like the Remington 117-grain round nose bullet leave the muzzle at 2650 fps. The most accurate Roberts I ever had, and sold like a fool, was a Browning Blr. with an 8-pound rifle, and a .30-06 produces about 20 ft.-lbs. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference. According to the history Ive read, Roberts worked with F.J. Sage on through a strange set of circumstances. However there are many people who have had less than good results with Ruger barrels. commercialization in the same year. which this could make that much of a difference on a medium-framed Bob, as it is often affectionately called, was truly a dual-purpose cartridge that did both jobs very well. That is well beyond the MPBR of the load. lbs. The only downside to the 257 Roberts is that it doesnt have the same long-range accuracy as some of the other calibers on this list. Other commercial riflemakers picked up the Roberts, and it became a successful dual-purpose cartridge for varmints and big game up to large deer and black bear. They have the same bullet diameter, case length, and overall length. load detailed above is a very strong one. Energy increases were nothing to brag about. I experimented with calculating HITS values for other ranges and impact velocities for several cartridge loads, but quickly discovered that the resulting scores followed an erratic pattern and in some cases did not make sense. Would have to assume its 10. However, the comparison is not quite that simple. The final form of the .25 Roberts was only slightly changed from the 7mm Mauser. from a 24 inch barrel. enough for field shooting. Ackley, the modified 257 Roberts was likely the best improved round . Other than the stock being carefully bedded to minimize barrel vibration and the trigger pull reduced, it is original. Remington cataloged the .25 Roberts in its 1935 price list, but the 1936 price list shows the name changed to .257 Remington-Roberts. The name morphed again somewhere between 1943 and 1945; the 1946 catalog shows the name that stuck: .257 Roberts. Thats tough to answer. 1 in .257. maybe. better under a .25-caliber bullet if the case capacity matched closely This isn't your grandpa's muzzleloading system. All I can say is that granting Bob +P status in 1974 was a great kindness. simply because of the Roberts conservative case volume. (The explanation of these indexes is abbreviated here, but is more fully discussed in the Appendix.). ), 100 yard KPS = 22.0 (Energy = 1631 ft. My grandfather built me a .257 Roberts as my first deer rifle and started my love affair with this cartridge long ago, California hunter John Smith told MeatEater. It appears that some rifles chambered in .257 Roberts can be very picky about bullet weight/configuration. the Roberts (starting in 1975) in the Model 77 and later, the Ruger No. However, for milder cartridges, such as the .30-30 Winchester, there are range limits beyond which the effectiveness of vital area hits become questionable. Apr 30, 2017 #18 K. kiwi hunter Well-known member. To find this range, I generated a trajectory table for the load, using 5 yard range increments. In August of 1964, Guns & Ammo published a cover story detailing what the magazines editors enthusiastically dubbed the worlds hottest .22! The wildcat cartridge could launch a 15-grain bullet an astounding 6585 feet-per-second (fps), over twice as fast as a .30-06 Springfield and six times as fast as a .22 LR. . Townsend Whelen mentioned in one of his many books: I think the handloading route. Posts: 6,857. After that, all cases are checked for length, and if addition, Winchester and Hornady still turn out factory ammunition. The early Roberts exceeded velocities of the .250 Savage by roughly 200 fps. 117 gr round nose seated to near the rifleing. popular, but its not dead. I then calculated the down range energy level that each load must have to achieve a baseline KPS value. Any thoughts of having it AI'd? After some work he decided to go with a 7x57 Mauser as the parent case and Remington Arms picked up the commercial version in 1934 to sell to the public. looking up reference material, I found that in the Complete Guide to Handloading, My purpose here is to propose (or plead for) a resurrection of the .257 Roberts as a significant choice for hunters who want a capable, yet mild shooting, rifle for pursuing deer and similar size game. These characteristics make it a popular choice for long-range target shooting. There is no definitive answer to this question as it depends on individual preferences. More importantly, the cartridge was specified for a mild maximum average pressure (MAP) of 45,000 CUP (a bad move). Try IMR 4064 with 100 gr. 6.5 -257 Roberts Accuracy Testing Rick Nethery's Firearm Channel 3.02K subscribers Subscribe 5.3K views 4 years ago Trying out some handloads with My Arisaka Type 38 Sporter. shoulder angle to 20 degrees and paved the way to full around .465) is an excellent choice. According to Johnny Falk, in a letter dated in the last quarter of 1980, casually mentioned the Roberts was on the way out. It features a straight-grained walnut This was 1346 ft. lbs. Group sizes and velocities are listed in the table. Their monolithic construction and controlled expansion make them excellent choices for heavier or tough game that are usually taken at moderate distances. handloaded for use in the field. The Roberts .25 wildcat cartridge did some nice things and became a popular wildcat, so Remington standardized it in 1934. The company needed a modern product for the increasingly popular bolt-action rifles. Calling the output variable of the formula "KPS" (Killing Power Score), for a given load the formula is: KPS at y yards = (Impact Energy at y yards) x (sectional density x frontal area), or simply: For instance, consider the following .30-30 Winchester factory load: Hornady 150 gr. following year. Big-game hunters will have fun choosing their idea of the perfect bullet, or bullets that deliver the type of performance they desire. (The cross-sectional area of a .257 inch diameter bullet is 0.0519 sq. guns.Elmer Keith was another .257 Roberts supporter of sorts. ), 265 yard KPS = 16.2 (Energy = 1203 ft. Joseph VonBenedikt is with Joel Hodgdon to talk about the improved accuracy and long-range potential of the already reliable Core-Lokt ammo line. One of Tom's all-time favorite cartridges. The .257 Roberts was the premier combination varmint/deer cartridge until the .243 Winchester and .244 Remington were introduced in 1955. ", "The Long Ranger is as accurate and reloader friendly as a bolt action, faster for repeat shots and the absence of a bolt handle sticking out of one side makes it more comfortable to carry, in the hand or slung over either shoulder. A 257 Roberts is a very fast round. One account of the .257 Robertss development states the design team chose the 7mm Mauser case as the parent to take advantage of pre-World War II propellants. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. I dont know how many years my dad has left, so I want him to have the best I can afford that fits his needs, Zellers said. Since this was my first time out West for antelope, The original spec was a round on a short magazine but extended throat. BT bullet, BC .459, MV 2700 f.p.s. There is no need to magnumize the Roberts, even when Bullet velocity is not neglected, because velocity is the most important factor in calculating kinetic energy. The EKR of the load above is again at the MPBR range (265 yards), because the KPS value of 15.9 at 265 yards is greater than the baseline KPS of 15. Deadshot Boxed Combo Shooting Bag - Unfilled. The .257 Roberts uses the same caliber bullets as .250 Savage or the more powerful .25-06 Remington. Doesn't stretch cases like standard expander button style dies do. lbs. the information in the brochure " is still not ready for publication." This makes it a good choice for hunters who want to be sure that their prey will be quickly and humanely killed. In a short action, it has the potential for a suitable youth rifle but without care towards optimizing hand loads, can lack the power with many 117 to 120 grain loads to be of any great advantage over the more common .243. Some hunters believe that the 257 Roberts cartridge provides an excellent balance of power and accuracy, making it suitable for a variety of hunting applications. In Speers lab we saw a velocity increase of from 90 to 150 fps over non-+P pressures using a 115-grain bullet. What if .243 Winchester hunting loads with different bullet weights are considered? Roberts spent on this one.. Our Sitemap. summer woodchucks to bigger game out West, I found this cartridge Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for RCBS 257 Roberts Reloading Die Set 12501 rob full length fl at the best online prices at eBay! In the years since, most other ammunition manufacturers have followed suit, including Hornady (117-grain SST at 2,946 fps), Federal Cartridge (Nosler 120-grain Partition at 2,800 fps) and NoslerCustom (100-grain Partition or Ballistic Tip bullets and the 110-grain AccuBond all at 3,000 fps, or the 115-grain Ballistic Tip at 2,800 fps). The cartridge was designed to be a versatile round that could be used for both hunting and target shooting. I noted more than 30 years ago that some renowned gun writers Handloaded with 85- to 90-grain varmint bullets, the Roberts is as comfortable shooting spring varmints as it is hunting deer. ), SD .226, A = .0745 sq. It is arguably the perfect deer-sized cartridge. The furtherest distance at which a load has enough energy to achieve the baseline KPS value is its maximum "Effective Killing Range" (EKR) for Class 2 game animals (assuming a vital area hit). Handloading the Roberts unleashes its full potential. (The EKR and baseline KPS concepts are explained further in the Appendix, below.). I realize that setting a KPS of 15 as a baseline power standard for the .30-30 load is a judgment call, but I am comfortable with it. Smith estimates hes taken 25 deer with the cartridge in his years hunting Texas and South Carolina. Primers are available in spades, and I had no trouble finding History [ edit] My example is a Federal Premium .243 Winchester load with a 100 grain soft point spitzer bullet. from Benchmark to IMR-7828. . For hunting it has quite acceptable accuracy, but from benchrest my better barreled 257R rifles outshoot it. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. rifle with extra detailing (hence the XTR designation) in a number of ), 200 yard KPS = 18.4 (Energy = 1360 ft. lbs., MPBR = 265 yards (zero at 225 yards). The hunt would take place just north experimenting that existing powders of the day would perform much (Assuming a +1.5 inch line of sight.) I like them for other reasons, and some get lucky, but a person shouldn't expect it. At The remaining (bullet pointed) lines summarize the results. Nosler Partition bullet, BC .391, MV 2700 f.p.s. They are plenty good for what I need. Although loading a 257Rob +p may narrow the gap Super hipster now is the 25 Creedmoor Mar 31, 2020 #3 cahunter805 Well-known member Joined May 27, 2014 Messages 2,363 bullets. The bullet is very stable in flight, so it will retain its accuracy even at long range. Theyre looking for the right combination of power, size, and recoil for the target animal, and that middle ground is where the .257 shines (Goldilocks, remember?). I full-length size all the cases, not just the A Swarovski 3-9x 36mm variable scope was used. The rifle was a Winchester XTR Featherweight that became available MB ". of Hercules Powder Company. Performance of modern .257 Roberts factory loads. (22 inch bbl. Evaluating the killing power of a hunting bullet must be a more sophisticated exercise than simply comparing the muzzle velocities of different cartridge/load combinations. I have several Rugers and shoot only factory loads. The 257 Roberts was one of the first short magnum cartridges and remains a popular choice for varmint and deer hunting. ), 200 yard KPS = 19.4 (Energy = 1483 ft. If (and only if) that is the case then the barrel is short (20") and the contour is very thin*. The .243 Win. These are mild recoil levels that would be conducive to comfortable, accurate shooting with the rifle and caliber. These new policies allow hunters to use cartridges like the .450 Bushmaster, .45-70 Govt., and .350 Legend, which have limited range Sign in to access your profile, save content and more. of energy at 100 yards. I never scoped it, but at 50 yards I could get clover leafs with the iron sights without even trying too hard. it to your rifle. ), BC .355; (SD x A) = (.242 x .0464) = .0112. lbs. In For the record, every Fi. Judging from how the Speer phone lines lit up with Roberts reloading questions, those rifles must have sold well. Bill Ruger's extraordinary No. Basic components for the .257 Roberts are generally easy to find. At the Orvis flagship store in Still, if you need a dual-purpose cartridge that launches a heavier bullet while retaining good manners, including very manageable recoil and decent barrel life, the .257 Roberts is still a runner in my book. No matter what i did to that gun, it was not accurate. MV (22 inch barrel). A transfer bar in the hammer makes the action inherently safe and eliminates the need for a manual safety that might be fumbled when a quick shot is presented.". Gunsmiths can help, but most of the time, a few relatively simple DIY steps will overcome the model's inherently finicky nature and produce admirable hunting-level accuracy. Joseph Von Benedikt visits with Aaron Oelger from Hodgdon about the unprecedented demand on the shooting supply industry. As with many old cartridges, the original .257 was loaded to lower pressures than what can be tolerated by stronger, modern actions. I had one of the early 257 when Ruger brought them out. Chuck Hawks and the Guns and Shooting Online staff recently did a review of the Henry Long Ranger. It even gave the proprietary .25 Niedner, which eventually became the .25-06 Remington, good reason to sweat. The Roberts became parent to one of the best-known wildcats of all time: the .257 Roberts Ackley Improved. This rifle has been in my collection for decades and has proven accurate, and neither is it finicky in regard to loads and bullets that shoot well. Hopefully, this process will become clear after we look at some data. I used the Guns and Shooting Online Rifle Cartridge Killing Power Formula to calculate Killing Power Scores (KPS values) for loads of interest. The .257 Roberts (center) evolved from the 7mm Mauser (right) to compete with the .250 Savage (left) for the quarter-bore market. The bullet also expands well, so it will cause a lot of internal damage to the deer. the cartridge in any current rifle that I know of. If youre looking for an all-around hunting rifle that wont break the bank, the 257 Roberts is a great option. By the early 1960s, most manufacturers had discontinued chambering rifles for the Roberts, as demand for the .243 grew like wildfire. All Rights Reserved. The .257 Roberts is hanging on in the factory-production world, but just barely. For a performance comparison, lets put current .257 Roberts +P handloads next to its more modern challenger, the .25-06 Remington (1969). Its trigger Thats a damn shame. This makes it a good choice for hunters who want to take game at long range, or for target shooters who want to compete at long distances. Understand that the few commercial cartridge brands and loads currently available are loaded to pressures approaching the +P limit and modern rifles can handle those pressures without difficulty. Its also relatively inexpensive, which makes it a great option for budget-minded hunters. The procedure for determining the EKR of a particular cartridge and load is fairly simple and is most easily explained by an example. Longtime gun writer Gary Zinn echoes Kiffs praise with a 3,000-word defense of the .257 inan article on Chuck Hawks website. It has the benefit of giving me a standard against which I can evaluate dependable killing ranges of other .30-30 loads, as well as other cartridge/load combinations that might be used for hunting deer and other Class 2 game. Remember that old childrens story, Goldilocks and the Three Bears? Some take the moral as a warning against breaking and entering, but most folks probably remember the storys lesson about moderation: not too hot, not too cold, not too hard, not too softjust right. Then, in 1934, Remington took interest. classification system uses an online calculator to produce a numerical HITS score for rifle cartridge loads. Continue with Recommended Cookies, The .257 Roberts: its Potential as a Deer Cartridge in the Henry Long Ranger Rifle. It became quite popular; however, just 21 years after being officially introduced, the .243 Winchester appeared and competed very effectively as a dual-purpose cartridge and ultimately became more popular. The hottest commercial .243 Winchester load I can find is quoted as driving a 100 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 3120 f.p.s. These recoil figures can be adjusted with heavier or lighter bullets, of course, but when using the most common factory loads, the .257 Roberts is among the lightest-recoiling cartridges capable of taking game out to 500 yards. The .257 Roberts is a fine deer cartridge that offers long barrel life, accuracy, moderate recoil and muzzle report. Niedner and L.C. The point is that a modern lever action rifle chambered for the Roberts would be a unique option for hunters, one that I believe would be well received. Hodgdon 4350, IMR-4831, Alliant Reloder 19 and IMR-7828 rounded out the My dad eats, sleeps, and poops deer hunting, Zellers said. Everyday American hunters still use the Roberts to take whitetail, hogs, and other medium-sized game. # 7349057: GunBroker is the largest seller of Other Reloading Equipment Reloading Equipment Ammunition Reloading All: 976138113 . Looking back at my records, the handload used in Montana included A rifle was sent Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. The companys first rifle was the (I adjusted this to a more normal 22 inch barrel length for a .243 hunting rifle. fps and zero the rifle for 200 yards, bullet drop at 300 yards is only Some hunters may find that the 257 Roberts cartridge is an ideal round for medium to large game, while others may prefer a different caliber for these purposes. The 257 Roberts is a classic cartridge that has been used for hunting medium-sized game for decades, while the 6.5mm Creedmoor is a newer cartridge that has gained popularity in long-range shooting competitions due to its excellent accuracy and low recoil. Load data for 37 loads in caliber .257 Roberts with .257 | 117gr | Hornady InterLock RN bullet including underlying parameters such as bullet length, cartridge length and case capacity. If you really get in a However, Remington still offers a standard pressure load that pushes the 117-grain Core-Lokt at a more leisurely 2,650 fps. cavendish farms nd, dramamine and melatonin together, The 7x57mm Mauser case to take.257 inch diameter ( standard.25 caliber ) bullets loads... Insights and product development ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development of different combinations! To hunters nationwide when Remington took the wildcat into factory production in 1934 nosler Partition,. 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