Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. He says when youve got a mountain lion in town, its kinda obvious. Fish and Wildlife Service decided all of the cougars, pumas, and mountain lions in the country are actually the same species, and that species hasnt had a breeding population anywhere near the Northeast for at least 70 years. Since then, there have been a handful of confirmed mountain lion sightings in the Northeast, although most have been thought to be escaped captive animals. And I saw you cat about four feet long from nose to tail come across from the water across the road and just leap over a six foot perimeter fence in a single bound. We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. But I was riding a mountain bike not far from my house. In Vermont, it was 1881. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. When the federal Endangered Species Act came along, the Eastern Cougar (Puma concolor cougar), the subspecies of Mountain Lon ti hat orgi inally occurred Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. I think that you probably are. The last known mountain lion killed in New Hampshire is displayed at the Woodman Museum in Dover. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. It was some sort of a Lion Mountain Lion animal. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. Thank you. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. So hard to know hard to refute if there's no interest in making up a story which many people of course do then I would respond the same way as Pat did. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. In latest school funding trial, state attorneys argue NH districts' budgets are bloated, Lawmakers, advocates, families in NH react to Biden Admin's proposed Title IX change, Give Back NH: The New England Grassroots Environment Fund, NHs housing crisis is pushing more older adults to seek help. Oh you saw him online. OK. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. The cougar is also commonly known as mountain lion, puma, mountain cat, catamount, or panther. But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. I'm Peter Biello. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. On June 9 2021 I saw a Mountain Lion along the Connecticut river in Clarksville New Hampshire . Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. Good morning guys. My YouTube Channel NH Fish and Game YouTube Channel My Facebook Page My Weekly Live Stream on the NH Wildlife Federation FB Page Home About Eric 2022 NH Nature Notes NH Wildlife NH Wildlife Deer Deer in NH The next day I crossed the river and took pictures of a paw print he left behind . County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. That's the real story is they can't follow up on every one of these sightings. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. Thank you. But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. Well let's hear from from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track. It's bigger but bigger and better world. A young male cougar weighing about 40 pounds was shot and killed this week near Whiteclay, Nebraska. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. Peter Biello: Wow. Today she talked with us a little bit before the show about why the mountain line is so compelling and why we want it to be part of our world. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. So what a neat experience. Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. And then just up behind it you know at about 11 o'clock on one side and whatever that would be on the other side it's black. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. Fish and Game then deny the evidence. They were able to do all that by genetics. So what counts as verifiable evidence? Patrick Tate: Yeah yeah. By Eric Orff. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal . He was just walking along the river then went up into the woods . You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. There's no attraction. Patrick Tate: I don't believe it is. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. Mike thanks for your call. Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. Mountain lion DNA was recovered from a Petersham, Mass., close to the New Hampshire border, after a 2016 incident in which a horse was injured. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. New Hampshire Public Radio | For all the men out there that don't realize it. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. But no proof was offered. Mountain lion or cat running across. May 23 . Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. So I learned about what Rick just reported through a heart of heart of New Hampshire a letter and. Tim Yeah. These were normal everyday folks. Really appreciate it. So in fact, maybe a decade ago now there was a mountain lion killed in Connecticut and through DNA analysis of that mountain lion and scat that had been left in various places. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. Its actually fairly reasonable to believe that mountain lions do, at least, pass through occasionally. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. Rick van de Poll: 80 90. I'm gonna send you a letter that we researched this report and we spoke with those labs and the lab wrote in their letter to us that they could only say that Scott contained white Tea Party fur and that they could not say what deposited the scout because it's far too degraded listeners we'd love to hear from you about your mountain lion sightings if you have seen one or if you if you think you have give us a call we'd love to hear your story 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. No that's a little bit outside the range. Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. Caller: And the more I thought about it the color of it it was definitely not a bobcat. They kill big animals. Thanks for your call. I found a second scat scent both to him. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. Caller: Absolutely. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. Peter Biello: Yeah. It was not a bobcat. What's going on. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. Ive received pictures of dogs at odd angles, says Tate. Have it reported down in the Keene area. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. They just end up in these places. Patrick Tate: Yes. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. Does not test random Scouts. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. The evidence for the 1874 cougar is so hard that it's held in a display case in the State Museum of . We had six copies printed out each. So maybe a good pet for you but not for your neighbor if you just stop by unannounced. Thank you very much for being here. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. So one thing that I find fascinating about this Connecticut cat was six months between the New York situation where they found evidence of it too when it was hit by a motor vehicle. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. No doubt in my mind it was. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. Do we have native species that could have exhibited this type of behavior leaving leaving a deer carcass up in a tree. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? So I think in that story there's there's something for the believers and the nonbelievers and I and you know Mark L. Brock is who is a gentleman with the cougar Network told me this story is evidence that that if they were here we would know about it. So I just throwing that out there it's interesting. It's you know I recognized their report and. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. Caller: Are probably. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. Right. She is renowned for tracking. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. You know interactions are pretty unusual. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. The females disperse a shorter range and once they find a vacant home range they stay in that location and live there. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. Absolutely. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. Thanks for a great thanks. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Mountain lions live in the state. What do you think that. We want answers. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. There's a lot of photographs that you can see that it's very clearly a tabby cat that someone has thought was a mountain lion. Sam Evans-Brown: What he would have stopped as well I think is way way that the reason that mountain lion kept moving is because he wasn't finding anybody. Thanks very much. Okay. I'm Peter B yellow. Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. 50 feet above the most. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. John you're on the air. He said matter of fact I do. I mean it wasn't your idea. And really whenever you hear tiny code and long rope like tale it's kind of hard to pin this sighting on any other creature rather than an outline or just nothing else really matches that description. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. It was a 140-pound male mountain lion, the first confirmed in Connecticut in more than 100 years. Peter Biello: Listeners give us a call if you have a question or a story of a sighting 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. Well they are the same. So so in 2011 a mountain lion was killed in a car accident in Connecticut a car hit a mountain lion and killed it. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. The last wild mountain lion in New Hampshire may have been killed in the White Mountains in 1885. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? So I certainly can't dispute anything that they said there's no evidence for me to go by to verify or say what my thoughts are on the situation. "There is a very low possibility of seeing them in the. Yes. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. But those who called the New Hampshire Fish and Game officer were told the last time a mountain lion was seen in the state was in the 1850s, and it's unlikely they have made a return. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. They reported seeing the big tail and everything everything. There was no sign of it. The last wild mountain lion in New Hampshire may have been killed in the White Mountains in 1885. I have one that's more elaborate than that. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. Have a photo. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. Deer manages to free itself from the claws of a mountain lion in Alpine, California. And it was you know 10 or 12 people saw it all at once. I believe I saw one that's fine and I'm not looking for an immediate story. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. (Credit: Buddy Wilkerson via Storyful) . So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. And we want to know your stories if you have them 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or email exchange at an HP bar dot org we'll talk about conspiracy theories when we come back. So let's let's go to the phones. They're just moving around freely. A middle school in Manchester, New Hampshire has sent out an alert after a mountain lion was spotted. Rick van de Poll: Rick your thoughts. You don't know what's going on. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. Let's look for other evidence. You need a permit to have that. Peter Biello: Ok. Tonight, Sean McDonald . Patrick Tate: If I could just say one thing. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. Credit: Elizabeth Nichols via Storyful . Was riding a mountain lion as a confirmed mountain lion in Alpine, California evidence show. 9 2021 I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long.... 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